A Modern Day Allegory

by Glenn Woiler

Dear Reader…..  Today we have an amazing reality (allegory) unfolding within
the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  It is a sad “play” with real live actors…
some of whom you might know!  A few of them are members of the church (Newport)
I regularly attend, and one is pastor of the Sandpoint, Idaho church close by.  For the purposes of this Modern Day Allegory, I will refer to all of them by the name, Foolish-Faithless.

And the devil that serpent said, “did God say you could eat (believe) every fruit sitting on the 1843 and 1850 tables?”

Foolish-Faithless – Nay!  He did not mean for us to eat everything on these tables.  Some of the fruits are foreign to us.  We have never seen them before.  They make no sense to us.  God did not really mean for us to believe everything He tells us.

Serpent – Thou hast spoken wisely. God knew you would question His authority.  He put a few fruits on the table that you would think odd and not recognize… It is good for you to question God.

Foolish-Faithless – You seem to possess wisdom…  Please tell us more!

Serpent – silently thinking… (If I were to tell you the truth, I would not tell you that the very fruit you question is most vital to your health.)
No No! You are on the correct path in tossing these fruits off the table!
[grinning] Removing 2 insignificant fruits could not have any consequences!

Foolish-Faithless – This makes good sense to us.  We don’t think the Daily and 2520 should be eaten.  We will toss them out.  Now that we have done that, we are much happier!  It makes no difference whether we believe them or not.  Many theologians tell us to not worry about them.  These theologians tell is about peace and safety.  We like to hear that!  We are happy!

The Serpent, folding his arms with a sly smile, thought to himself, just as he had gotten Eve to
distrust God, he has been successful in leading the remnant to discard a small portion of truth God had provided.  He knew by doing this, the remnant would slowly loose their way and not have the protection God provided them to guard against falsehoods and fables yet to come.  They did not have a love for the truth.  He got them to distrust God.


…and so the clan represented by Foolish-Faithless, continued on their journey towards the Promise Land… God had lovingly provided 2 tables laden with all kinds of fruit to nourish them as they went.  Each fruit supplied nutrients not found in the others.  It was necessary to eat of all the fruit to reach their destination and inherit Eternal Life.  The tables of fruit were mentioned by Habakkuk and by Ellen White. 

As is the case, down through human history, there are men and women that are too intelligent and they think to reason among themselves (as did the Pharisees) to their peril. They think themselves to be smart and wise to choose their paths contrary to the narrow path God placed before them.  Once they enter in to dialog with the enemy, they are beguiled and do not know it. It is a strange blindness that settles over them as a deep dark fog.  God would have us be faithful as little children.  He wants us to trust Him.  He gave us 2 fences… a guard… one on each side of the narrow path to keep us from falling off in to the darkness below.  These fences on each side of the path also give light to our feet so we will not stumble.  There is no safety in discarding the very thing God gave to protect us.

How is it with you dear reader?  Do you believe that God had the charts as He wanted them?  Do you believe that God led William Miller in his studies to find the starting points of the great time prophecies?  Or have you been beguiled by theologians (Laodiceans) of the day and believe that God was not able to produce 2 Prophecy charts accurately?

WeBelieveSDA.org believes that GOD is able to keep His word.  We believe God is the ruler of all there is and ever was.  He is more able to see the end from the beginning and not miss something along the way.  If studied correctly, all of our precious Seventh-day Adventist history makes perfect sense and all the puzzle pieces fit perfectly.  Time and place must be
considered.  The charts came first, with their endorsements.  This is unmovable. All later statements in the Spirit of Prophecy agree with the earlier statements and are to be understood in that context.  If we read otherwise, we are adrift and guilty of our own private interpretation.

Epilog: As they continued in the way, some fell off the path here and some fell off the path there.  The Foolish-Faithless had removed the guard rail that had been installed for their safety.

May God Bless all of you as we stay on the narrow path keeping our eyes on Jesus.


Glenn

25 Responses to A Modern Day Allegory

  1. Richard says:

    The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work. Every truth that He has given for these last days is to be proclaimed to the world. Every pillar that He has established is to be strengthened. We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.—Manuscript 129, 1905. {CTr 367.6}

  2. Court Hendrix says:

    In 5 years of constant study, night and day, and whole weekends, I have to my Delight found the message of the “Pippengerites” to be fool proof and air tight. A complete system of truth that is in complete agreement with the King James Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy!

  3. Mary Shelton says:

    One thing you stated correctly, the 2520 message is indeed of Jeff Pippenger and rightly followers are “Pippengerites”. This is a teaching which, I believe, is an outgrowth of rejecting the 1888 message as taught by Jones & Waggoner and EGW. How fool proof and air tight will seemingly be a message that will “if possible deceive even the very elect?”

    • serve says:

      You need to bone up on your recent history. Jeff did not discover the forgotten 2520 prophecy. He as others, embraced it, when found, because it is on the endorsed charts that should not be altered. [fulfillment of Habakkuk 2] This, is REAL faith. All those today that say it is not real are the deceivers. All the Pioneer preachers used the charts and presented the 2520 in it’s proper setting. We will not be guilty of removing a pin or a peg of our history and foundation. True safety comes by making no changes. Fool hardiness is saying that God did not really have the charts as He wanted them. :) Who is the deceiver?

    • There were specific comments that were given to us by the SOP in regards to the 1843, and 1850 Charts. Both of which embrace the 2520, Islam, 2300 years and the belief in that is “Righteousness by Faith”. Are we not called to believe in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God? Does our Lord change His statements, can He for that matter? Yet many seek to change that which is obviously stated by the SOP. The SOP supported the message of 1888 as do we but it does not stop there. Sister Shelton, do you know what the real issue was at the 1888 conference? Please note the following quote:

      My brother, how can I hope to labor in harmony with you when Minneapolis with its experiences is so plainly before me? My ministering brethren came to that conference with a spirit that was not the Spirit of God. They were under a deception in regard to me. If the Spirit of God had impressed and controlled their hearts they would not have taken a position so wide of the mark in judging me, my position and work. After plainly stating my position I said that as long as my brethren thought that I was influenced in my judgment and work by W.C. White, A. T. Jones, or Dr. Waggoner, they need not send for me to attend their camp-meetings or conferences for I could do them no good if I did come. {1888 240.1}

      It was the SOP that they were rejecting. Since she was supporting the message of 1888, they were in truth rejecting the SOP and in this way rejecting Christ. As it is for us today. When we reject the messages that have the clear endorsement of the SOP we are in truth rejecting the message of 1888 the message of the SOP. God Bless

  4. Mary Shelton says:

    Dear Brother Moeller,

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to reply. You ask if I know what the real issue was at the conference of 1888. If you mean by your reply to me that it was the rejection of the SOP through the brethren’s opposition to Ellen White I would have to refer to her own words. The “most precious” message which she called the “beginning of the latter rain and loud cry” of Rev. 18 was not given by God to her as she testifies herself: “The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones. This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world”. 1895 May 1 (to O.A. Olsen) She, however, said that “every fiber of my heart said, Amen ” to their message and she joined with them in proclaiming it. She also said “God has sent men to bring us the truth. .God had sent somebody to bring it to us” Ibid p. 608 and “I accept it”. p. 608

    So while I agree that the message of 1888 surely had the endorsement of EGW, it was sent by God through Jones & Waggoner and she called them “God’s delegated messengers” The Ellen White 1888 Materials p.1009, “The Lord’s messengers” Ibid, p. 1025, “the Lord’s anointed”, Ibid p. 1038

    According to Rev. 18:, this “other angel”, the fourth angel, “having great authority and the earth was illuminated with his glory”. This agrees with Ellen White who states: “God meant that the watchmen should arise and with united voices send forth a decided message. .Then the strong, clear light of that other angel who comes down from heaven having great power, would have filled the earth with his glory. .the very message that God meant should go forth from the Minneapolis meeting. .” Ibid, pp. 1070-71

    I believe that only those who receive the fullness of the beginning of the “most precious” message, “the beginning of the latter rain and loud cry” will discern the fullness of the latter rain, receive it, and in it’s glorious light reflect the character of Jesus to the waiting world. I believe the agape of God witnessed in the message of the Cross which was central to the 1888 message is the “power of God unto Salvation for everyone who believes” Romans 1:16 The light streaming from Calvary is the greatest power in the Universe and the fullness of the latter rain will, I believe, be for the perfecting of the saints who will have the awesome privilege of helping to vindicate the government and law of God and will only cause it to shine clearer and more brilliant “unto that perfect day”. When God sent the “most precious” message with the glorious light of His Son’s Cross and what He accomplished there, it was not loved and cherished by the majority as it should have been. It will not fail, however, though delayed it’s fulfillment is sure and will “lighten the earth with glory and Jesus will come”.

    “God is raising up a class to give the loud cry of the third angel’s message. .The loud cry will soon be heard and the earth will be lightened with the glory of God.” 20MR 357.1 June 27, 1884 Unfortunately, the “loud cry” was muffled by the unbelief of the leadership when it came a few years later. But it is shining forth in glory again today, our wilderness wandering is over and we are again at Kadesh-Barnea. My prayer is that we all will open our hearts to His gentle knock and His light will illuminate our pathway.

    “Said my guide, “There is much light yet to shine forth from the law of God and the gospel of righteousness. This message, understood in its true character, and proclaimed in the Spirit, will lighten the earth with its glory. The great decisive question is to be brought before all nations, tongues, and peoples. The closing work of the third angel’s message will be attended with a power that will send the rays of the Sun of Righteousness into all the highways and byways of life, and decisions will be made for God as supreme Governor; His law will be looked upon as the rule of His government.” The Ellen White 1888 Materials p. 166.1 Blessings to all. . . .

    • Dear Sister Shelton,

      Several topics have been brought up here. If you do not mind I would like to retain clarity on the first. So we both agree that EGW supported AT Jones and Wagonner just as stated. Yet, if I understand you correctly by your statements above you do not agree that the real issue as she stated was about her position as the Prophet. The fact that she states that they had a special message which she supported does not belay the fact the issue was over her position as the Prophet. In the last part of that statement it states clearly the reason they did not accept the message is because they believed that her son along with ATJ and EW had influenced her statements as the prophet. For they knew her endorsement to what they were saying was pivotal, Satan realized this and that is why they attacked her as they attacked ATJ and EW. This was at the core of the message, the endorsement of the SOP. They knew this, for which spirit were they being led by? What you may not know she was getting ready to leave that meeting. She was packing her bags and was out of there. She was thoroughly disgusted with what had happened at the meetings, please note:
      When I purposed to leave Minneapolis, the angel of the Lord stood by me and said: “Not so; God has a work for you to do in this place. The people are acting over the rebellion of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (Num 16). I have placed you in your proper position, which those who are not in the light will not acknowledge; they will not heed your testimony; but I will be with you; My grace and power shall sustain you. It is not you they are despising, but the messengers and the message I send to My people. They have shown contempt for the word of the Lord. Satan has blinded their eyes and perverted their judgment; and unless every soul shall repent of this their sin, this unsanctified independence that is doing insult to the Spirit of God, they will walk in darkness. I will remove the candlestick out of his place except they repent and be converted, that I should heal them. They have obscured their spiritual eyesight. They would not that God should manifest His Spirit and His power; for they have a spirit of mockery and disgust at My word. Lightness, trifling, jesting and joking are daily practiced. They have not set their hearts to seek Me. They walk in the sparks of their own kindling, and unless they repent, they shall lie down in sorrow. Thus saith the Lord: “Stand at your post of duty; for I am with thee, and will not leave thee nor forsake thee.” These words from God I have not dared to disregard.–Letter 2a, 1892, pp. 4, 5. (To “Dear Nephew and Niece, Frank (F.E.) and Hattie,” Nov. 5, 1892.) {3MR 191.2}

      Our Lord is being very clear here as to whom she is and who is in control and what was happening. They were rejecting not only ATJ and EW but more importantly her. She was leaving and she was told not to. So it goes for us today. The SOP is abundantly clear that the 3 Angels Message was given from 1840-1844, that message includes the 2520, Islam 2300 years and more. Therefore, what is on those two charts is part and parcel of the 3 Angels Message just as righteousness by faith, the health message and more.

      In essence the same thing is going on today. When we reject the messages God has given to us we are acting over the rebellion of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.

      God Bless

  5. God Bless my brother for it is in His loving hands.

  6. Mary Shelton says:

    Brother Moeller,
    If I understand correctly, you say that the essence of the rejection of the 1888 conference was mainly and “most importantly” a rejection of Ellen White i.e. the SOP. Again, I will let her speak for herself. “The Lord has shown that we are in just as much danger in our day as were the people in the days of Christ. The Lord is speaking through his delegated messengers; but the same unbelief is exhibited. Men close their hearts against Jesus, and hold themselves in the veriest bondage to Satan, supposing that they are preserving their dignity as free men; that they are maintaining their right to act and think for themselves, to believe or doubt; and like the despisers of the gospel in the apostolic times, they wonder and perish.” The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials p. 398

    “I was conducted to the house where our brethren made their homes, and there was much conversation and excitement of feelings and some smart and as they supposed sharp, witty remarks. The servants whom the Lord sent (Jones & Waggoner) were caricatured, ridiculed, and placed in a ridiculous light. The comment. .passed upon me and the work that God had given me to do was anything but flattering. Willie White’s name was handled freely and he was ridiculed and denounced, also the names of Elders Jones and Waggoner (Letter 14, 1889) This discouraged her to the point where she was going to leave the conference when stayed by the angel as God had appointed her to stand by the message and messengers He had sent. This shows the deep satanic enmity to this glorious message. Anyone who upheld the message and the messengers were derided and ridiculed per the above quote. “We have traveled all through to the different places of the meetings that I might stand side by side with the messengers of God that I knew were His messengers, that I knew had a message for His people. I gave my message with them right in harmony with the very message they were bearing”. Ibid p. 542
    “Has God raised up these men to proclaim the truth? I say, yes, God has sent men to bring us the truth that we should not have had unless God had sent somebody to bring it to us. God has let me have a light of what His Spirit is, and therefore I accept it, and I no more dare to lift my hand against these persons, because it would be against Jesus Christ, who is to be recognized in His messengers.” Ibid. p. 608

    You may recall from reading the history of how this animosity came about between the older brethren and J&W. E.J. Waggoner had published a paper on the Covenants sometime previous to the conference which Uriah Smith was vehemently in disagreement. And when against EGW’s counsel he published Waggoner’s views in the Review she then said that Waggoner should have the same opportunity to respond in kind. The older brethren were against the two young “upstarts” who were coming in with views they did not uphold. So when the first teaching at the 1888 conference was E.J. Waggoner’s views on the law in Galatians, a smoldering fire burst into flame fueled by satan himself. And when the messenger of the Lord (E.G.W.) sided with Jones & Waggoner and supported their heaven-sent message, well, this is what A.T. Jones had to say: “What did the brethren in that fearful position in which they stood, reject at Minneapolis? They rejected the latter rain–the loud cry of the third angel’s message.
    Brethren, isn’t that too bad? Of course the brethren did not know they were doing this, but the Spirit of the Lord was there to tell them they were doing it, was it not? But when they were rejecting the loud cry, “the teaching of righteousness,” and then the Spirit of the Lord, by his prophet, stood there and told us what they were doing,–what then? Oh, then they simply set this prophet aside with all the rest (A.T. Jones, GCB 1893, p. 183)
    The conclusion to the leadership’s unbelief and opposition led to Ellen White being shipped off to Australia to silence her while E.J. Waggoner was shipped off to England. A.T. Jones was left without either of their support in America under the influence of Dr. Kellogg as he was promulgating his pantheistic theories. EGW stated that God was not in her going to Australia and she was shown that E.J. Waggoner should be brought back from England “to assist as a teacher at the heart of our work” W.C. White to A.G. Daniells, May 30, 1902

    So in conclusion, what was the essence of the rejection of 1888, Ellen White i.e. the SOP or the message and the messengers (J&W) whom God commissioned to bring it?
    “Here was evidence, that all might discern whom the Lord recognized as His servants. . .These men whom you have spoken against have been as signs in the world, as witnesses for God. . .If you reject Christ’s delegated messengers, you reject Christ (TM 97; 1896)
    “The true religion, the only religion of the Bible, that teaches forgiveness only through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, that advocates righteousness by the faith of the Son of God has been slighted, spoken against, ridiculed, and rejected (TM 466-468)
    “The present message. . .is a message from God; it bears the divine credentials, for its fruit is unto holiness (RH Sept. 3, 1889)
    “Men professing godliness have despised Christ in the person of His messengers. Like the Jews, they reject God’s message. . .He was not the Christ that the Jews had looked for. So today the agencies that God sends are not what men have looked for (FCE 472; 1897)
    Yes, Ellen White, i.e., the SOP was rejected during this time by the leadership along with His “delegated messengers” but although long delayed, we will yet see this “most precious” message lighten the earth with glory.
    “Several have written to me, inquiring if the (1888) message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, and I have answered, “It is the third angel’s message in verity.” The prophet declares, “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory” (Revelation 18:1) (RH, April 1, 1890)
    “The loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ. . .This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth (ibid., Nov. 22, 1892)

  7. Dear Sister Shelton,
    It seems that we are not connecting here.
    1. I have not disagreed with you that brothers ATJ and EJW had a special message.
    2. You have disagreed that it was the issue about the SOP in spite of the following quote: My ministering brethren came to that conference with a spirit that was not the Spirit of God. They were under a deception in regard to me. If the Spirit of God had impressed and controlled their hearts they would not have taken a position so wide of the mark in judging me, my position and work. After plainly stating my position I said that as long as my brethren thought that I was influenced in my judgment and work by W.C. White, A. T. Jones, or Dr. Waggoner, they need not send for me to attend their camp-meetings or conferences for I could do them no good if I did come. {1888 240.1}
    3. I have not disagreed with your points that ATJ and EJW were also given a hard time hence the quote from the SOP that was addressed to “Frank & Hatti Nov. 5, 1892.) {3MR 191.2}” in the above mentioned response. Please note the following quote from the SOP in regards to her experience and the power that was being poured forth at the conference; “I shall never, I think, be called to stand under the direction of the Holy Spirit as I stood at Minneapolis. The presence of Jesus was with me. All assembled in that meeting had an opportunity to place themselves on the side of truth by receiving the Holy Spirit, which was sent by God in such a rich current of love and mercy. But in the rooms occupied by some of our people, were heard ridicule, criticism, jeering, laughter. The manifestations of the Holy Spirit were attributed to fanaticism. Who searched the Holy Scriptures, as did the noble Bereans, to see if the things they heard were so? Who prayed for divine guidance? The scenes which took place at this meeting made the God of heaven ashamed to call those who took part in them, his brethren. All this the Heavenly Watcher noticed, and it is written in the book of God’s remembrance. “The Lord will blot out the transgression of those who, since that time, have repented with a sincere repentance; but every time the same spirit wakens in the soul, the deeds done on that occasion are endorsed, and the doers of them are made responsible to God, and must answer for them at his judgment throne. The same spirit that actuated the rejecters of Christ, rankles in their hearts, and had they lived in the days of Christ, they would have acted toward him in a manner similar to that of the godless and unbelieving Jews. The 1888 Materials, 1566. This supports the previous statement she wrote to “Frank & Hatti Nov. 5, 1892.) {3MR 191.2}” The essence of the meeting was that they were rejecting the Message of Christ.
    4. Your position is clear that you believe that the 1888 Message of Righteousness by Faith is the closing message for these last days.
    5. My point as stated earlier, I agree that “Righteousness by Faith” is part of that message but not the only part. The SOP is abundantly clear that the message from 1840-1844 is the message we are to be preaching and teaching today.
    a. Those who stand as teachers and leaders in our institutions are to be sound in the faith and in the principles of the third angel’s message. God wants His people to know that we have the message as He gave it to us in 1843 and 1844. We knew then what the message meant, and we call upon our people today to obey the word, “Bind up the law among My disciples.” In this world there are but two classes,–the obedient and the disobedient. To which class do we belong? (GCB April 1st 1903)

    b. The warning has come: Nothing is to be allowed to come in that will disturb the foundation of the faith upon which we have been building ever since the message came in 1842, 1843, and 1844. I was in this message, and ever since I have been standing before the world, true to the light that God has given us. We do not propose to take our feet off the platform on which they were placed as day by day we sought the Lord with earnest prayer, seeking for light. Do you think that I could give up the light that God has given me? It is to be as the Rock of Ages. (GCB April 6th 1903)

    c. We have, as had John, a message to bear of the things which we have seen and heard. God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches. We need the Holy Spirit to kindle in our hearts the zeal and earnestness that were then seen among God’s people. I thank the Lord that there are still living a few who can remember those days, and who know whereof they speak.(RH Jan 19th 1905)

    d. The truths that we received in 1841, ’42, ’43, and ’44 are now to be studied and proclaimed. The messages of the first, second, and third angels will in the future be proclaimed with a loud voice. They will be given with earnest determination and in the power of the Spirit.(15MR Ltr 75 1905)

    e. All the messages given from 1840-1844 are to be made forcible now, for there are many people who have lost their bearings. The messages are to go to all the churches. {21MR 437.1}(LTR 54 1906)

    f. God bids us give our time and strength to the work of preaching to the people the messages that stirred men and women in 1843 and 1844. {MR760 30.1}(July 4th 1907)

    6. You quoted and correctly about “Righteousness by Faith” Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, and I have answered, “It is the third angel’s message in verity.”– Review and Herald, April 1, 1890. Please note the other quotes in regards to the 3 Angels Message: “The third angel’s message, embracing the messages of the first and second angels, is the message for this time. We are to raise aloft the banner on which is inscribed, “The commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” The world is soon to meet the great Lawgiver over His broken law. This is not the time to put out of sight the great issues before us. God calls upon His people to magnify the law and make it honorable. {CH 357.2}(see also CW 30.2) “ The message proclaimed by the angel flying in the midst of heaven is the everlasting gospel, the same gospel that was declared in Eden when God said to the serpent, “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” (Genesis 3:15). Here was the first promise of a Saviour who would stand on the field of battle to contest the power of Satan and prevail against him. Christ came to our world to represent the character of God as it is represented in His holy law; for His law is a transcript of His character. Christ was both the law and the gospel. The angel that proclaims the everlasting gospel proclaims the law of God; for the gospel of salvation brings men to obedience of the law, whereby their characters are formed after the divine similitude. {2SM 106.2} The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old. The Old Testament is the gospel in figures and symbols. The New Testament is the substance. One is as essential as the other. The Old Testament presents lessons from the lips of Christ, and these lessons have not lost their force in any particular. The first and second messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order, and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel’s message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. These messages we are to give to the world in publications, in discourses, showing in the line of prophetic history the things that have been, and the things that will be.–Manuscript 32, 1896. {CW 26.2}

    In conclusion please note the dates on the above (a-f)quotes? Each was well after the 1888 message. As stated before the quotes from the SOP must be taken in harmony with all of her quotes they cannot disagree. It is obvious the message of 1888 came after those given from 1840-44. Hence logic requires that those messages are part of the message that was being referred to by the 1888 message, for is not righteousness by faith believing in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God (Deu_8:3; Pro_14:15; Pro_30:5; Mat_4:4; Mat_18:16; Luk_4:4; 2Co_13:1;) ? As can be seen by the above quotes that the 3 Angels Message encompasses more than just our limited understanding of “Righteousness by Faith” it requires of us to believe in “every word the proceeds from the mouth of God” for it also includes the prophecies, commandments of God, the “faith of Jesus” and Genesis 3:15 all are part of that message.

    Hence your position that those who believe that the messages from 1840-44 is a deception is unfounded and does not bear up under the scrutiny and light of comparing scripture and the SOP. Though I suspect you will disagree and that is your choice and I believe a wrong one. There was a foundation established between 1840-44 and heartily encourage you to once again step upon the platform that the SOP calls the “Rock of Ages”. God Bless

    The warning has come: Nothing is to be allowed to come in that will disturb the foundation of the faith upon which we have been building ever since the message came in 1842, 1843, and 1844. I was in this message, and ever since I have been standing before the world, true to the light that God has given us. We do not propose to take our feet off the platform on which they were placed as day by day we sought the Lord with earnest prayer, seeking for light. Do you think that I could give up the light that God has given me? It is to be as the Rock of Ages. It has been guiding me ever since it was given. Brethren and sisters, God lives and reigns and works today. His hand is on the wheel, and in His providence He is turning the wheel in accordance with His own will. Let not men fasten themselves to documents, saying what they will do and what they will not do. Let them fasten themselves to the Lord God of heaven. Then the light of heaven will shine into the soul-temple, and we shall see the salvation of God. {GCB, April 6, 1903 par. 35}

  8. Mary Shelton says:

    My brother,

    Thank you again for your reply. I am inadequate to state what I know to be the truth of this subject of the “most precious” message which was and is today the “third angel’s message in verity”. The very message in which the final denouements of the latter rain will be bathed and together make up the light which will “lighten the earth with glory” so brilliantly and so heart converting that every person on this earth will respond to them with the “faith of Jesus” or will choose by their rejection the fate of the lost. I believe and I am convicted that whatever message comes in this day, 123 years after the “beginning” of it was sent from heaven by a merciful and loving God, that it will find it’s power in the message already sent which is the message of the cross of Calvary. That is why I believe God sent the message of the cross as the forerunner to all He yet sends because therein lies the power of God “unto salvation”. As Paul declared in 1 Corinthians 2:2, “For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” This was not only Paul’s message, possibly the greatest of all expositors of the gospel, but also the message of the disciples preached on the Day of Pentecost that won thousands in a day. This same power of the cross will yet, according to the Bible and Ellen White, be even greater than the power of the former or early rain. But, sadly, without discernment of what this message that encompasses the birth, life, death, resurrection, and final glorification of the Savior, many will come with a message that gives lip-service to it and pass on with supposedly more glorious and important truths. Most today agree that it was a legitimate message sent by God but to miss or dismiss the hundreds and hundreds of Ellen White’s statements of the rejection of the message and messengers as the tragedy of that day and the cause of the long “wilderness wandering” that has brought us to the sad place we are in today, is to miss, I believe, the testimony of her statements concerning it finally published in the four large volumes entitled, “The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials.” If our people would only read these with a prayer to understand our history, we would be as God’s church in a far better place for the call to repentance to the “stars” (leadership) would bring forth repentance for our lukewarm condition and the sheep would follow. Ellen White stated that this message was “the message to the Laodiceans” EGW 1888 Materials p. 1052. I am a believer in the early three angel’s messages of 1842-1844. They are, as you state, being repeated again and will do their work on this earth. But Revelation 18: 1 is a depiction of the “fourth angel” which Ellen White said plainly is the message of 1888 and that with further truth through God’s appointed messengers will, in my opinion, make up the third angel’s message which will call out God’s people from Babylon.

    It has been my observations and also my reservations that although the Bible and EGW both urge a study of the prophecies for the specific purpose of preparation and knowledge for the time we are living in, I do not see the cross and life of Jesus as Paul and the disciples displayed it with all the attending power of salvation that attended it. There is much truth taught and many expositions of the charts and prophecies of Daniel and Revelation by different groups but with just an acknowledgment of as EGW put it, “the light that will lighten the earth with glory”. That light which streams from Calvary will not lessen but will shine in an ever-widening path to give power to all that comes after it however crucial and important these further truths shall be. I am not hesitant to say that this is my criteria for further truth. If the “full-orbed” message of Calvary, including the sanctuary message where Jesus entered in 1844 for the purpose of cleansing and making up the 144,000 who will stand to vindicate His laws and government is not the “present truth” for this final generation and is shadowed by knowledge of prophecies, etc. then I wonder about the priorities of that teaching. It is our “fitness” for heaven more than knowing time-lines that to me seems urgent today. Warnings and “crying aloud” have their place but they must be given with the “sweet love” of those who follow Jesus into the Most Holy because their hearts have finally been “transplanted” by an understanding of what really transpired at the Cross. That one subject is so important and monumental and yet most do not understand it as taught in the 1888 message. When we see and comprehend that the Lord of glory died our second death, not our first one, we will as A.T. Jones said, “walk softly before the Lord” all the days of our lives. This is the vision that He gave to E.J. Waggoner that transformed his life. And it is the thing and only thing that will transform us. Prophecies and knowledge will not alone do it. “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13: 2 This love, this amazing agape of God in sending His Son to take our second-death, goodbye to life forever, punishment will forever be heaven’s safeguard against any future sin and uprising. And it must be our study here and we are told “it will be our study throughout the ceaseless ages.”

    I am but a lowly daughter of the Most High and I realize these are my beliefs and I do not set them up above anyone elses as only God is our judge but I thank you again for letting me respond and I will let this be my final contribution. I pray God’s blessings on each one of us that we may know the truth and the truth “shall set us free”.

  9. Dear Sister Shelton,

    I apologize for the delay. I have been somewhat busy.

    I concur that if we were to study our History, which includes 1840-44 and the 1888 message our Church would be in a much better place today than what it is now.

    Your comment in regards to Revelation 18 is noted. Yet, is not the fourth angel a repeat of the second Angels message of Revelation 14:8?

    (Rev 14:8) And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 18 is repeating and enlarging the message given in Revelation 14:6-12. Following a standard Biblical principle of repeat and enlarge.

    Revelation 18 points to the time when, as the result of rejecting the threefold warning of Revelation 14:6-12, the church will have fully reached the condition foretold by the second angel, and the people of God, still in Babylon, will be called upon to separate from her communion. This message is the last that will ever be given to the world; and it will accomplish its work. When those that “believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness,” [2 Thessalonians 2:12.] shall be left to receive strong delusion, and to believe a lie, then the light of truth will shine upon all whose hearts are open to receive it, and all the children of the Lord, that remain in Babylon, will heed the call, “Come out of her, my people.” [Revelation 18:4.] {GC88 390.2}

    Hence what happened in 1888 was “The Angel” that came down was Christ and that was confirmed by the statement that was quoted and for the sake of this discussion bears repeating.

    “I shall never, I think, be called to stand under the direction of the Holy Spirit as I stood at Minneapolis. The presence of Jesus was with me. All assembled in that meeting had an opportunity to place themselves on the side of truth by receiving the Holy Spirit, which was sent by God in such a rich current of love and mercy. But in the rooms occupied by some of our people, were heard ridicule, criticism, jeering, laughter. The manifestations of the Holy Spirit were attributed to fanaticism. Who searched the Holy Scriptures, as did the noble Bereans, to see if the things they heard were so? Who prayed for divine guidance? The scenes which took place at this meeting made the God of heaven ashamed to call those who took part in them, his brethren. All this the Heavenly Watcher noticed, and it is written in the book of God’s remembrance. “The Lord will blot out the transgression of those who, since that time, have repented with a sincere repentance; but every time the same spirit wakens in the soul, the deeds done on that occasion are endorsed, and the doers of them are made responsible to God, and must answer for them at his judgment throne. The same spirit that actuated the rejecters of Christ, rankles in their hearts, and had they lived in the days of Christ, they would have acted toward him in a manner similar to that of the godless and unbelieving Jews. The 1888 Materials, 1566. This supports the previous statement she wrote to “Frank & Hatti Nov. 5, 1892.) {3MR 191.2}

    They did not recognize the time of their visitation at that time and because we are Laodiceans we are not willing to recognize the message that was designed to awaken God’s people again today. It is the message of righteouseness by faith and that is exhibited by believing the messages that have already been given in our past history. Especially when we are told over and over again that is what we are to do.

    History is clear and we know from scripture that God does not change: Mal 3:6 James 1:17. At the time of Noah, it was a prophetic message that was used to awaken them and they did not. At the time of Nehemiah, Daniel, Christ there was a prophetic message a life and death message, the 3 Angels Message did they listen then? The message was meant to awaken them and instead of accepting the message they fought against.

    It seems that the root of the matter is the definition of “sweet love”. The general assumption seems to be that those who give a last day message have no love in their hearts and that is blatantly wrong and that thought comes from the pits of Satan. Let us think this through for just a moment and allow scripture to be our expositor.

    The difference between a true prophet and a false prophet.

    Jer 28:10-17 Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from off the prophet Jeremiah’s neck, and brake it. (11) And Hananiah spake in the presence of all the people, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all nations within the space of two full years. And the prophet Jeremiah went his way. (12) Then the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah the prophet, after that Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying, (13) Go and tell Hananiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Thou hast broken the yokes of wood; but thou shalt make for them yokes of iron. (14) For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; I have put a yoke of iron upon the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they shall serve him: and I have given him the beasts of the field also. (15) Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie. (16) Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD. (17) So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

    Reproof

    Eze 14:1-6 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me. (2) And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, (3) Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them? (4) Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols; (5) That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols. (6) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

    Mat 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (8) Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

    Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    Mat_23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
    Luk_11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
    Luk_11:48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

    Our Lord makes this comment;

    Eze 18:31-32 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

    As shown above it is easily understood that throughout sacred history as found in the Sacred Words of our Lord and Saviour, whenever a message comes the children of Israel they fight against the message. An assumption is made that the message is not filled with the “sweet love” from the throne of grace. As it can be seen in the above quotes our Lord used the words and called them “hypocrites (“actors”), “whited sepulchers”, “murderers” and more. Was “sweet love” being portrayed?

    The definition of “sweet love” has been warped. Love is expressed in sincere warnings to God’s people as much as it is when you try to win someone to Christ. When you warn your child that is about to get hit by a car, do you do it with “sweet love” or is it “sweet love” that screams at the top their lungs to warn their child to move or die? Dear Sister Shelton, we are at that stage in sacred history, where a gently loving message will not awaken the Laodicean Church. If they do not awaken from their stupor they will die.

    With a loving heart I must say this to all those who will be reading this as much as I say it to you dear Sister. If our brothers and sisters do not return to the messages given from 1840-44 they will die. If they do not once again step upon that platform that was given to us during that time and by 1888 they had left that platform and were in complete rebellion. They were being called to have the “Righteousness of Christ” as we are being called today. To believe in every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

  10. Mary Shelton says:

    Dear Brother Moeller,
    I thought to check today to see if I might have a reply from you and I see that you had again written so I will again respond. The reason being that Ellen White stated that we must not close our minds to those who come with “new light” but we are to “study to see whether these things are so”. She also said that nothing is lost by doing this. I think there is a far greater danger in a closed and prejudiced mind such as the brethren exhibited in response to the 1888 message. However I also believe that we are not able to come to truth but through the direct agency of the Holy Spirit. So it takes both, an open mind and an open heart.

    I agree with your statement, “Revelation 18 is repeating and enlarging the message given in Revelation 14:6-12. Following a standard Biblical principle of repeat and enlarge.” Ellen White stated this in the Review & Herald of April 1, 1890:
    “Several have written to me inquiring if the (1888) message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, and I have answered, “It is the third angel’s message in very.” The prophet declares, “And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory” (Rev. 18:1) ”
    Also, “The loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth” RH Nov. 22, 1892
    This angel is the angel of Rev. 18:1 “After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory”.
    “Who of those that acted a part in the meeting at Minneapolis have come to the light and received the rich treasures of truth which the Lord sent them from Heaven? . .Not one.. .God meant that the watchmen should arise, and with united voices send forth a decided message. . Then the strong, clear light of that other angel who comes down from heaven having great power, would have filled the earth with his glory. We are years behind.” Letter B-2a, Nov. 5, 1892
    Sadly, our own brethren through their rejection did not allow that “other angel” to “lighten the earth with glory” so that Jesus could come. Instead, according to Ellen White we would have to “wander in the wilderness many more years like the children of Israel” because of “insubordination”.
    Has this “most precious” message yet been received “as God meant it to be” and given to the world in power and it’s true character?
    “This mesage, understood in its true character, and proclaimed in the Spirit, will lighten the earth with its glory.” That, dear brother, is what the angel (message) of Rev. 18 is to do and will yet do. “The light that is to lighten the whole earth with His glory was resisted, and by the action of our brethren has been in a great degree kept away from the world.” 1 SM pp. 234, 235
    Sadly not only the “whole earth as yet has no knowledge of the light God sent in 1888 but neither does our church. Because Ellen White wrote so much about it, it is given lip service as something akin to what the Evangelicals have or what even the reformers taught but it is not so. As you stated, it was an “enlargement” of Rev. 14:8 and a revelation of the agape of God in the teachings of J&W heretofore never seen of the life, death, resurrection, and glorification of Jesus and how that pertains to the teachings of the sanctuary given to Israel being the typical and now since the cross and 1844 being the antitype. His work in the Most Holy Place where He is now making effective for us what He already accomplished in his life, death, etc. is an important truth of the 1888 message which makes plain the process of the New Covenant, the writing of His commandments in our hearts and minds. This was always His Covenant but legalism circumvented the “faith” by which righteousness is obtained. This is still God’s problem with us today. It is very subtle and confidently denied but the pride of “we will do all that thou has spoken” is still rampant. Or conversely, the theory of cheap grace abounds. That brings me to mention the “sweet love” you spoke of. It is in no way the insipid evangelical love without works but the true love that “cometh down from above” and is described in 1 Corinthians 13. God is working now in many ways to warn us of the coming doom. He will continue to do so to awaken the “dry bones” in and out of His church. But it is still and will always be His “sweet love” that will win hearts.
    “I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. . .Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest (apartment), and pray, “My Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.
    I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne (of the first apartment); they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, “Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no SWEET LOVE , joy and peace.” EW 55, 56
    I submit that what the church and the world need most today is a “greater revelation” of the love of God that was given to the world in the person of Jesus Christ. This is the message of 1888 – a much greater illumination as depicted in Rev. 18:1 by the “other angel” that comes down. It is not a cheap grace message of a weak and compromising God but the most powerful message ever sent to this earth – the character (commandments) of the God who is Agape Personified. This is what each person will yet see when He appears for we shall see Him “as He is”.

    “It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth.

    This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, “O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him.” Isa. 40:9,10.

    Those who wait for the Bridegroom’s coming are to say to the people, “Behold your God.” The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.” Christ’s Object Lessons p. 415
    This, dear brother, was and is the “most precious” message of 1888 and is still the greatest need of our church and the world. It is “the testimony that must go throughout the length and breadth of the world” The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials p. 1339 and “lighten the earth with its glory.” MS 15, 1888 (Olsen, p. 294) I pray each one of us will have a part in reflecting His light. Again, thank you for your response.

  11. serve says:

    Dear Mary,

    Randy and myself take care of the webelievesda web site. I have followed what you have written and what Randy has also. Randy accepts the 1888 message, in its proper context. But you don’t seem to accept the experience that lightens our path as our eyes are on Jesus. This is the Midnight Cry. It is necessary. It gets repeated. It also led the brothers and sisters following Jesus, to go from the Holy in to the Most Holy. The Love of God gives the prophecies that we might follow Him. Today, there is much we still don’t know but He is leading. What truth can we neglect in order to focus on 1888? The health message? Prophecy? What? She, Mrs. White tells us plenty about all the events and their importance that happened in the early 1840s. What you say is important. If you are unbalanced and ignore our earlier history… then you don’t have a complete truth for this time we live in. You imply there is no sweet love in the early prophecies. I beg to differ with you. I have seen what this message does for people. The Whole Bible speaks of God’s Love.

    God Bless you,
    Glenn

  12. Dear Sister Shelton,

    If I understand you correctly you do not believe I did respond to your earlier message, I did and it is posted. As to your above comments, I appreciate what Brother Glenn stated for he stated the truth and it was stated to you as well. We fully accept the message of 1888 but that is only part of the message. You have been given the quotes from 1903-1907 that point out we have no new message. Hence the message of 1888 has to be combined with the messages of the past. This is consistent with what scripture points out to us in Ecc. 3:14,15, Jeremiah 6:16, Isaiah 46:10. Should you reject the messages that brought us out of the churches from 1840-44 your position places you in the fulfillment of Jeremiah 6:16.”but they said we will not walk therein”.

    Notice what our Lord said what He will do;

    Mat 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (36) And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

    Luk 12:51-56 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: (52) For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. (53) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (54) And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. (55) And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. (56) Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

    This is what the “sweet love” of Christ will do. You will stand boldly for the truth not matter what people may say or do. Your heart will break, you do your best to express your thoughts, feelings and understanding in a loving way and it is misinterpreted, misunderstood and maligned. No different than what happened to our Lord and Saviour.

    God Bless
    Randy Moeller

  13. Mary Shelton says:

    Dear Brother Moeller,
    If you will kindly note the first sentence of my previous reply as stating I did receive your response. I will reply to both you and brother Woiler as he also addressed a reply to me.
    First, I would like to state that I am a firm and grateful believer in the platform of truths that the pioneers established in the early days by much prayer and study. These are delineated in this statement from Ellen White:

    “The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God’s people upon the earth, (also) the first and second angels’ messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, “The commanments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
    One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God’s law.
    The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing moe than can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary. (CW 30.2)

    As you know, this was the cry of much of the leadership of 1888 and what she was referring to in the above quote. As you can see she clearly delineated what the “old landmarks” were and I believe are still today. And I have been a believer in all of them for over 60 years now and I find more “sweet love” in them and in my deeper understanding of them as the years go by. All of these truths, that are not to be moved and are forever settled in heaven and earth, are all part of the “most precious” message sent by God in 1888 which Ellen White called “old truths in a new setting”. And indeed they were illuminated with the power of God as the Three Angel’s Messages reiterated in Rev. 18 that are yet to go into all the world to call God’s true people out of Babylon. They were also intended to give further illumination to our own Laodicean church with a plea from heaven to avail ourselves of the remedies spoken of in the message to the Laodiceans in Rev. 3:14-22. It was, according to the messenger, not only “the message of God to the Laodicean church” Ellen White 1888 Materials p. 1052 but also as I stated in an earlier reply, the message of the “other angel” of Rev. 18 which is the Three Angel’s Messages “in verity” Review & Herald, April 1, 1890 Ellen White stated in Selected Messages that the three angel’s including the fourth angel are “messages”. I cannot verify exactly where that is found as my Selected Messages were literally falling apart and I, unfortunately, threw them away thinking I would get more but so far have not done so.

    To answer Glenn’s question as to which truth we should neglect to focus on 1888, I would answer that no truth should be neglected for all make up the character of Jesus, His white robe of righteousness, just as all colors of the rainbow make up our precious and beautiful light. However, there is no need to neglect one truth of God’s Word if we make His Word our priority in our lives. Time is short and I think we all sense that we need to pray for God to write His laws, His commandments, His ways, and His sense of urgency to understand these things and then gladly and joyously follow them as He gives us grace to do so.

    I would like to close with a rather lengthy, but I believe enlightening, writing by Willie White. In Christian love, MS

    W. C. White Letter of November 4, 1912

    Written to W. W. Eastman, Publishing Department Secretary,
    Southwestern Union Conference
    Published in Selected Messages, book 3, pp. 445-450.

    It seems to me, Brother Eastman, that we must hold fast our confidence in the great Adventist movement of 1844, and we should not be easily moved from the positions held by the leaders in that movement and by the pioneers of our own denomination.
    At the same time, I believe we should encourage our editors, our ministers, and the teachers in our schools, and the rank and file of our people, as far as they have time and opportunity, to be thorough Bible students and faithful students of history so that they may know for themselves and so that they can prove to people who do not accept our denominational books as authority, the points that we hold as a people. It is my conviction that those who write for our denominational papers regarding prophecy and its fulfillment ought to be encouraged to give deep and faithful study to the subjects about which they write, and to use in their arguments references and quotations from those historians which will be accepted by the readers as authority.
    It may be all right for a preacher in presenting Biblical expositions to his congregations to quote from Daniel and Revelation and Great Controversy as well expressed statement of his views; but it could hardly be wise for him to quote from them as authoritative histories to prove his points. I think you will discern the reasonableness of this proposition. A Presbyterian who was endeavoring to prove the soundness of his theories to a congregation of Methodists would not be expected to depend largely upon Presbyterian writers to prove his points, nor would a Methodist who was endeavoring to convince a Baptist of the soundness of the Methodist religion, make the greatest headway by using Methodist writers as his authority. In all our work we must study to follow methods that are most effective.
    When it comes to the matter of writing out expositions of doctrine or of prophecy, still greater care must be taken by the writer than by the preacher to select those authorities which will be accepted as authorities by the critical and studious reader.
    If I understand the matter correctly, Brother _____ has been writing articles on prophecy and its fulfillment in which he uses Daniel and Revelation and Great Controversy as authority to prove his points. This I should consider to be a very poor policy. Some readers will accept it as establishing the truth. Some readers will accept it as true, while questioning the authority. With others the use of these denominational books in such a way will constitute a challenge for them to endeavor to prove that there are errors in the books thus used as authority. Will it not be better for all classes if in our sermons and articles, we prove our points by references to authorities that are generally accepted?
    Ellen G. White Writings on History

    Regarding Mother’s writings and their use as authority on points of history and chronology, Mother has never wished our brethren to treat them as authority regarding the details of history or historical dates. The great truths revealed to Mother regarding the controversy between good and evil, light and darkness, have been given to her in various ways, but chiefly as flashlight views of great events in the lives of individuals and in the experiences of churches, of bands of reformers, and of nations. What has thus been revealed to her she has written out first briefly in the early writings, then more fully as in Spiritual Gifts and in Spirit of Prophecy, and finally in the Great Controversy series.
    When writing out the experiences of reformers in the time of the reformation and in the great Advent Movement of 1844, Mother often gave at first a partial description of some scene presented to her. Later on she would write it out more fully, and again still more fully. I have known her to write upon one subject four or five times, and then mourn because she could not command language to describe the matter more perfectly.
    When writing out the chapters for Great Controversy, she sometimes gave a partial description of an important historical event, and when her copyist who was preparing the manuscripts for the printer, made inquiry regarding time and place, Mother would say that those things are recorded by conscientious historians. Let the dates used by those historians be inserted. At other times in writing out what has been presented to her, Mother found such perfect descriptions of events and presentations of facts and of doctrines written out in our denominational books, that she copied the words of these authorities.
    When Controversy was written, Mother never thought that the readers would take it as authority on historical dates or use it to settle controversy regarding details of history, and she does not now feel that it should be used in that way. Mother regards with great respect the work of those faithful historians who devoted years of time to the study of God’s great plan as presented in the prophecy, and the outworking of that plan as recorded in history.
    In past years whenever definite proof has been found that the writers of our Adventist literature had come short of finding the exact proof regarding details, Mother has taken her position in favor of correcting those things that were clearly found to be in error. When she was consulted about the efforts that were being made to revise and correct the good book Daniel and Revelation, she has always opposed making many changes, and has always favored correcting those things that were plainly shown to be incorrect.
    Chronology
    It seems to me there is danger of placing altogether too much stress upon chronology. If it had been essential to the salvation of man that he should have a clear and harmonious understanding of the chronology of the world, the Lord would not have permitted the disagreements and discrepancies which we find in the writings of the Bible historians, and it seems to me that in these last days there ought not to be so much controversy regarding dates.

    For myself, I will say this: that the more I study the experience of the Adventist people, the more I feel to honor and praise and magnify the wisdom of the God of heaven who gave to a plain man like William Miller an understanding of the great truths of the prophecies. It is evident to anyone who will study his explanation of prophecy that while he had the truth regarding the principal features, that he adopted at first many inaccurate and incorrect interpretations regarding details. At first these were accepted by his associates; but God raised up scholarly men who had enjoyed broader opportunities for study than Miller, and these men by their study of the prophecies and history found the truth regarding many points in which Miller’s exposition was incorrect.
    One who studies this experience from the standpoint of faith in that great Advent movement, as presented in Daniel and Revelation, and in Great Controversy, cannot fail to rejoice in the goodness of God as they see how He brought in truth and light through the study of many men and it seems to me that we who love the work that was built upon that foundation ought to treat very kindly, very considerately, very reverently the work which God helped Miller to do.
    Make Only Modest Claims
    But if we claim that Miller and his associates had a perfect and complete knowledge of the truth regarding the correspondence of history with prophecy, or if we claim for the pioneers in the third angel’s message that their knowledge was complete and infallible, if we say, “Never in the history of this cause have we been obliged to confess ourselves in error,” we shall unwisely and unnecessarily challenge criticism that will display to the world in a manifold and exaggerated light the imperfection and inaccuracies of some of our expositions which have been corrected by the results of faithful study in later years.
    It seems to me, Brother Eastman, that there is great possibility of our weakening our influence by closing our eyes to the fact that we are all as little children learning from day to day from the great Teacher, and that it is our privilege to advance in knowledge and understanding. It seems to me that it is much wiser for us to convince the world that God has been leading us, and that He is leading us by presenting from time to time, unanswerable evidences regarding the soundness of our position by a clear presentation of the correspondence of prophecy and history through the use of historical data which the world cannot question, than by any efforts that we shall make to prove that the positions we held last year or ten years ago or twenty years ago or thirty years ago were infallible and unchangeable.
    Regarding Mother’s writings, I have overwhelming evidence and conviction that they are the description and delineation of what God has revealed to her in vision, and where she has followed the description of historians or the exposition of Adventist writers, I believe that God has given her discernment to use that which is correct and in harmony with truth regarding all matters essential to salvation. If it should be found by faithful study that she has followed some expositions of prophecy which in some detail regarding dates we cannot harmonize with our understanding of secular history, it does not influence my confidence in her writings as a whole any more than my confidence in the Bible is influenced by the fact that I cannot harmonize many of the statements regarding chronology.

  14. serve says:

    Dear Mary

    I like to keep things simple… that way a child might understand also. For me… it IS simple. Our messenger said that the charts were as God wanted. Simple. Plain. Accurate. If anyone comes minimizing or doing away with “any” truth recorded on those [43 and 50] charts.. then the only thing to do is rally in support of them. It makes no difference whether anyone today says they can’t see it and understand it in the Bible. We are blind. That means, we can’t see. Children can understand that! The charts “were” as God wanted. Simple! Humans use Higher reasoning, Textual criticism, and Circular reasoning to twist things backwards and confuse. This has been and will continue to be the enemies strategy. You are good at quoting Mrs. White to support yourself… but you leave out other quotes that show us that the light that shines upon our feet comes from this Midnight Cry experience from the early 1840s…. The Millerite preachers used those charts at ALL their discourses and meetings to teach with power – what led them to1844. I will not alter what the Lord established. Tell me Mary…. what other truths on the chart shall we minimize because it seemingly does not align itself with the quotes you use? Others say the 2520 is not on the 1863 chart. Neither are other prominent prophecies such as the 1260, 1290 and 1335! Rather than expend all this energy on this topic… should we not be about our father’s business? Did you know that the last work to go forward will not be sermonizing… but Medical Missionary work? That is our last work….. Not preaching about 1888… but living with that experience…. a reality in your heart! If the First… Second… and then Third angels messages go again in their order… as the aged experienced men of old taught and lived…. then why don’t you think ALL… – everything taught will not be taught again?

    Sincerely,
    Glenn

  15. Dear Sister Shelton,

    Many of our people do not realize how firmly the foundation of our faith has been laid. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, Elder Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, “We can do nothing more,” the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, His mission, and His priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me. {SpTB02 56.4}

    We can see by the above quote even though it was written in 1904 she is referring to the time that Elder Bates, Pierce and Edson were alive. Since they passed away before 1888 we can easily understand that it was prior to that time that the foundation of our Faith was laid.

    As Brother Glenn pointed out it is the understanding of the Charts (1843 & 1850 – which were approved by our Lord) that we speak of. We realize that Elder Miller was wrong in some of his prophetic understanding but we also know through the SOP where he was rock solid. It is these foundational positions we stand firmly upon. The 2520 which has a depth to it that is mind blowing. Islam is such an integral part of our Prophetic Past and today it is plainly evident will continue to play a part in our lives until Christ returns. The sanctuary doctrine on the 1850 Chart along with the 3 Angels Message each of which is a part of our eschatology. 1888 is a part of it as well though it is not stated on the chart it is still a part of it.

    Each of these are part of the framework our Lord is putting together for us to build upon.

    I leave you with this quote:

    “The truths given us after the passing of the time in 1844 are just as certain and unchangeable as when the Lord gave them to us in answer to our urgent prayers. The visions that the Lord has given me are so remarkable that we know that what we have accepted is the truth. This was demonstrated by the Holy Spirit. Light, precious light from God, established the main points of our faith as we hold them today. And these truths are to be kept before the mind. We must arouse from the position of lukewarmness, from being neither cold nor hot. We need increased faith and more earnest trust in God. We must not be satisfied to remain where we are. We must advance step by step, from light to greater light.
    “The Lord will certainly do great things for us if we will hunger and thirst after righteousness. We are the purchased property of Jesus Christ. We must not lose our devotion, our consecration. We are in conflict with the errors and delusions that have to be swept away from the minds of those who have not acted upon the light they already have. Bible truth is our only safety. I know and understand that we are to be established in the faith, in the light of the truth given us in our early experience. At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error.
    “As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.
    “All these truths are immortalized in my writings. The Lord never denies His word. Men may get up scheme after scheme, and the enemy will seek to seduce souls from the truth, but all who believe that the Lord has spoken through Sister White, and has given her a message, will be safe from the many delusions that will come in in these last days.
    “I know that the sanctuary question stands in righteousness and truth, just as we have held it for so many years. It is the enemy that leads minds off on side-tracks. He is pleased when those who know the truth become engrossed in collecting Scriptures to pile around erroneous theories, which have no foundation in truth. The Scriptures thus used are misapplied; they were not given to substantiate error, but to strengthen truth.
    “So you see that it is impossible for us to have any agreement with the positions taken by Brother Ballenger, for no lie is of the truth. His proofs do not belong where he places them, and although he may lead minds to believe his theory in regard to the sanctuary, this is no evidence that his theory is true. We have had a plain and decided testimony to bear for half a century. The positions taken in my books are truth. The truth was revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, and we know that Brother Ballenger’s position is not according to the word of God. His theory is a deceiving theory, and he misapplies Scriptures. Theories of the kind that he has been presenting, we have had to meet again and again.
    “I am thankful that the instruction contained in my books establishes present truth for this time. These books were written under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I praise the Lord with heart and soul and voice, and I pray that He will lead into all truth those who will be led. I praise Him that He has so wonderfully spared my life up to this time, to bear the same message upon the important points of our faith that I have borne for half a century.” Manuscript Releases, volume 8, 319–320.

    “It was the united testimony of Second Advent lecturers and papers, when standing on ‘the original faith,’ that the publication of the chart was a fulfillment of Habakkuk 2:2, 3. If the chart was a subject of prophecy (and those who deny it leave the original faith), then it follows that B.C. 457 was the year from which to date the 2300 days. It was necessary that 1843 should be the first published time in order that ‘the vision’ should ‘tarry,’ or that there should be a tarrying time, in which the virgin band was to slumber and sleep on the great subject of time, just before they were to be aroused by the Midnight Cry.” Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Volume I, Number 2, James White.

    I was shown that God’s true people are the salt of the earth and the light of the world. God requires of them continual advancement in the knowledge of the truth, and in the way of holiness. Then will they understand the coming in of Satan, and in the strength of Jesus will resist him. Satan will call to his aid legions of his angels to oppose the advance of even one soul, and, if possible, wrest it from the hand of Christ. {1T 345.1}

    GB
    Randy Moeller

  16. Mary Shelton says:

    Dear Brother Moeller,
    Thank you for your mail. I am aware and do appreciate both Bro. Woiler’s and your efforts to enlighten me according to the 2520 date on the charts. From that date comes your end-time scenario so one must put much emphasis on the date 2520 that Miller used in his reckoning of events as this seems to be the catalyst for the understanding of prophecy which you firmly believe is an unfolding of new light, including 9-11 as the loud cry message of the investigative judgment of the living.
    I have several friends who are set in stone with this message and one sent me this website and I quite spontaneously made a comment leading to our discussion. I am glad that I did because I am more knowledgeable about the date on the charts than I was previously but, as I said, it seems the bottom line is your firm belief that because William Miller used the 2520 and it was on the two charts, that it is included in the foundation that was set in 1844 which EGW said not a peg was to be removed. And as you know, in 1863 Elder White and some of the brethren disavowed their previous understanding of the 2520 date.

    Since Ellen White stated, “It has been given to me to correct specious errors and to specify what is truth” Letter 117, 1910, cited in Selected Messages, book 3, p. 32. it seems rather unprobable that she would not have corrected these brethren’s position that was published, I believe, in the R&H. I think this part of the quote you left me with in your last reply is pertinent: “Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error.”

    All these truths are immortalized in my writings. The Lord never denies His word. Men may get up scheme after scheme, and the enemy will seek to seduce souls from the truth, but all who believe that the Lord has spoken through Sister White, and has given her a message, will be safe from the many delusions that will come in in these last days.” Manuscript Releases, volume 8, 319–320

    Other than her stating that the charts were as God wanted them (and the importance of the 2520 date was to my knowledge never mentioned by her) it seems she put in her writings all the points of our faith that made up our foundation.” “As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.”

    To date this is how I see it and if God should show me further on this subject, I would follow His leading. I do respect you as Christian men of God and that you have the salvational interests of your readers in view. May the God of All Truth lead each of us safely home. Blessings, MS

  17. Dear Sister Shelton,

    Many topics were covered in the below article. For our discussion it is par 10-12 that I will be concluding with.

    November 1, 1850 Dear Brethren and Sisters

    September 23d, the Lord showed me that he had stretched out his hand the second time to recover the remnant of his people, and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering time Israel was smitten and torn; but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up his people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering when God has set his hand to gather his people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was a shame for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God does no more for us now than he did then, Israel would never be gathered. It is as necessary that the truth should be published in a paper, as preached. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 9}
    The Lord showed me that the 1843 chart was directed by his hand, and that no part of it should be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them. That his hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until his hand was removed. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 10}
    Then I saw in relation to the “Daily,” that the word “sacrifice” was supplied by man’s wisdom, and does not belong to the text; and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the “Daily;” but since 1844, in the confusion, other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion has followed. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 11}
    The Lord showed me that Time had not been a test since 1844, and that time will never again be a test. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 12}
    Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error, that the saints are yet to go to Old Jerusalem, &c., before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated to take the mind and interest from the present work of God, under the message of the third angel; for if we are to go to Jerusalem, then our minds will naturally be there, and our means will be withheld from other uses, to get the saints to Jerusalem. I saw that the reason why they were left to go into this great error, is because they have not confessed and forsaken their errors, that they have been in for a number of years past. E. G. White. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 13}

    It is interesting to note that she makes the statement only once in regards to time par.12 of the above article. There is very little dispute over this one statement. Yet, in Par10 & Par11 you have a major dispute going on within Adventism, why? Dear Sister Shelton what I am about to say my ruffle you feathers a bit so to speak. Your whole contention has been that the Message of 1888 is the message for the last days. In my post of the 15th of Dec 2011 I did not disagree at all with the message of Righteousness by faith and you yourself have stated that you did not fully understand the 3 Angels message. Yet, here we have a plain statement by Sister White; “The Lord showed me that the 1843 chart was directed by his hand, and that no part of it should be altered; that the figures were as he wanted them. That his hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until his hand was removed. {RH, November 1, 1850 par. 10}” That particular mistake was explained. Now here comes my point. Since you state and believe that the message of righteousness by faith is the message for the last days, then are you not exhibiting righteousness by faith by believing a plain thus sayeth the Lord? Then the question becomes do you believe in your own message?

    Deu_8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
    Pro_30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
    Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
    Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God

    Remember this quote that I stated was the real issue at 1888 conference: (See my post Dec 15, 2011 of this thread)

    You have disagreed that it was the issue about the SOP in spite of the following quote: My ministering brethren came to that conference with a spirit that was not the Spirit of God. They were under a deception in regard to me. If the Spirit of God had impressed and controlled their hearts they would not have taken a position so wide of the mark in judging me, my position and work. After plainly stating my position I said that as long as my brethren thought that I was influenced in my judgment and work by W.C. White, A. T. Jones, or Dr. Waggoner, they need not send for me to attend their camp-meetings or conferences for I could do them no good if I did come. {1888 240.1}

    She is still the issue.

    God Bless
    Randy

  18. serve says:

    interesting… Someone from the Newport church wrote in, anonymously of course, did not leave a valid email address… and said this:

    “There are some in the Newport church that do not reject the message brought to our church merely because of the Message. But the Messengers bringing the message have not always shown God’s love and that has made it hard to believe them and the message they choose to believe! Also by some of them now portraying members in good standing as Foolish Faithless people it makes it even harder to accept a message when clearly they should not say anything against those supposedly persecuting them! Concerned Newport Member”

    This reminds me of a quote where we are not to judge the message by the messenger… but on the merits of the message itself. This story is an allegory such as Pilgrims Progress. I wrote it as I see it. And, if a church member is indeed standing in the way of truth whether they are on the church books in good standing or not does not at all indicate whether they are in good standing with the Creator. It is sad to see… that the leadership would not set a good example and publicly state that, “We do not see the 2520 but it is on the charts so we will just make the statement saying we do not understand it.” That would be so simple and accurate. The charts have existed as is for many generations. We need to stand for truth on the basis of the facts. Who among us is perfect? Who among us has no faults? I can stand with my name. This church member must not have real conviction about what they believe because they have no name to stand behind. Glenn Woiler

  19. There is this quote fromt he SOP that makes it even more interesting.
    I think it is high time that we were Christians at heart. The condition of things here is such that it requires most earnest, persevering labor to counteract the work that has been done here for a few years in the past. I am glad that a time has come when something will stir our people to investigate the points of our faith for themselves. We should not consider that either Elder Butler or Elder Smith are the guardians of the doctrines for Seventh-day Adventists, and that no one may dare to express an idea that differs from theirs. My cry has been: Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves, and know for yourselves what saith the Lord. No man is to be authority for us. If he has received his light from the Bible so may we also go to the same source for light and proof to substantiate the doctrines which we believe. The Scriptures teach that we should give a reason of the hope that is within us with meekness and fear. {1888 188.1}

  20. Daniel Fontenot says:

    Dear Friends,
    My heart is saddened when I see people not being able to see the beauty of the messages God is sending His people in these last days. There are, I’m sure, many reasons why people can’t see the truth. There are many that could be mentioned. But one reason lies in the fact that so many have an unsanctified respect for leaders who themselves “know not the Scriptures neither the power of God.” Consider these statements from the Spirit of Prophecy:

    “Satan is constantly endeavoring to attract attention to man in the place of God. He leads the people to look to bishops, to pastors, to professors of theology, as their guides, instead of searching the Scriptures to learn their duty for themselves. Then, by controlling the minds of these leaders, he can influence the multitudes according to his will.” {GC 595.2}

    “Christ foresaw that the undue assumption of authority indulged by the scribes and Pharisees would not cease with the dispersion of the Jews. He had a prophetic view of the work of exalting human authority to rule the conscience, which has been so terrible a curse to the church in all ages. And His fearful denunciations of the scribes and Pharisees, and His warnings to the people not to follow these blind leaders, were placed on record as an admonition to future generations.” {GC 596.2}
    “Notwithstanding the Bible is full of warnings against false teachers, many are ready thus to commit the keeping of their souls to the clergy. There are today thousands of professors of religion who can give no other reason for points of faith which they hold than that they were so instructed by their religious leaders. They pass by the Saviour’s teachings almost unnoticed, and place implicit confidence in the words of the ministers. But are ministers infallible? How can we trust our souls to their guidance unless we know from God’s word that they are light bearers? A lack of moral courage to step aside from the beaten track of the world leads many to follow in the steps of learned men; and by their reluctance to investigate for themselves, they are becoming hopelessly fastened in the chains of error. They see that the truth for this time is plainly brought to view in the Bible; and they feel the power of the Holy Spirit attending its proclamation; yet they allow the opposition of the clergy to turn them from the light. Though reason and conscience are convinced, these deluded souls dare not think differently from the minister; and their individual judgment, their eternal interests, are sacrificed to the unbelief, the pride and prejudice, of another. {GC 596.4}

    “The hypocrisy of the Pharisees was the product of self-seeking. The glorification of themselves was the object of their lives. It was this that led them to pervert and misapply the Scriptures, and blinded them to the purpose of Christ’s mission. This subtle evil even the disciples of Christ were in danger of cherishing. Those who classed themselves with the followers of Jesus, but who had not left all in order to become His disciples, were influenced in a great degree by the reasoning of the Pharisees. They were often vacillating between faith and unbelief, and they did not discern the treasures of wisdom hidden in Christ. Even the disciples, though outwardly they had left all for Jesus’ sake, had not in heart ceased to seek great things for themselves. It was this spirit that prompted the strife as to who should be greatest. It was this that came between them and Christ, making them so little in sympathy with His mission of self-sacrifice, so slow to comprehend the mystery of redemption. As leaven, if left to complete its work, will cause corruption and decay, so does the self-seeking spirit, cherished, work the defilement and ruin of the soul.” {DA 409.1}

    And even when such statements are read many will excuse and gloss over the errors and abominations of the Seventh-day Adventist leaders, pastors, and modern theologians by saying, “Oh, I know that our leaders are not perfect, but…”
    Well, consider this statement from the pen of inspiration, “Many who claim to be Christians are in danger of rending their garments, making an outward show of remorse and repentance, when their hearts are not softened or contrite. This is the reason why so many continue to make failures in the Christian life. An outward appearance of sorrow is manifested for wrong, but their repentance is not that repentance that needeth not to be repented of [2 Corinthians 7:10]. May God grant to His church true contrition for sin. Oh, that we may feel the necessity of revealing true sorrow for wrongdoing.” {12MR 403.2}

    “My soul is constantly pained because of the evidence that I have of the superficial conversion of those who claim to be children of God. The question arises in my mind, Do these have any sense of the infinite sacrifice made in their behalf?” {12MR 403.3}

    By saying such things as, “Oh, I know that they are not perfect, but…”, they are “rending their garments, making an outward show of remorse and repentance.” If their saddness over the errors and sins of the leadership were sincere and heartfelt we would not see the people having so much confidence in men who have been teaching error for decades. You cannot be “sighing and crying for all the abominations that be done in the land” and yet be excusing the errors and sins of these misleaders. Oh, how hard it is to convince the people to study for themselves and not trust any man, especially the Pharisees and Sadducees, to do their studying for them.

    Daniel

  21. Jeff Ruetz says:

    Iv noticed that sister shelton in her last reply said that” if the Lord leads her further
    she will go” I hope she realizes that maybe these truths that are being resurfaced are
    the way God is leading further. God will use means and ways we could over look if
    we are set on one aspect or point in Adventist history and ignoring other parts of sacred history. Doesn’t make a complete picture, lets look at everything in the picture and not just one part of it , and not saying that one part of the picture is more important than the other parts.

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